River Song is…..

If you’ve not watched the mind blowingly amazing latest episode of Doctor Who, don’t worry. I’m not going to spoil it for you! (And if you have I don’t need to, right?). My theory about the identity of River Song still holds though, with a few tantalizing lines confirming it even more in my mind.

River Song is…….


More accurately, she is the TARDIS from the future (after….. y’know… that THING happens) regrown from Amy’s Ring. That’s why she can fly the TARDIS, write Gallifreyan and keeps a dairy (her “memory bank”) that looks an awful lot like the ol’ Police Box. As she is regrown, her Chameleon circuit is working too, which is why she looks amazingly like Alex Kingston. And yes, that does mean that River Song is bigger on the inside than she is on the outside.

Don’t go there.

Want more proof?

Add an L from somewhere (I’m sure they’ll invent a middle initial or something) and River L. Song is an anagram of Lover’s Ring. Ok, it’s a stretch, but worse anagrams have been made in Doctor Who :D

In this episode she says to herself “Oh Doctor. It’s amazing I let you out” – something only the TARDIS can say!

The TARDIS is The Doctor’s constant companion, friend, ally, and has proven time and again (no pun intended) that she is utterly devoted to him. In a way, she IS his wife. The TARDIS has demonstrated her ability to create Sonic Screwdrivers which explains how she got one in Silence in the Library.

As to what on Earth she is up to, and what’s going to happen next episode, I haven’t the foggiest idea.

But I do know one thing.

It will be amazing.

In Moff, we trust.

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193 Responses

  1. Elton says:

    Okay the biggest mystery is . . . when does the TARDIS achieve sentience and a human body???

    IF you’re right, of course.

    • greywulf says:

      The TARDIS has always been sentient. It’s a living thing, grown not made. With a working Chameleon Circuit it can turn into anything to disguise itself, though only one of the more advanced TARDISes (the Type 102s, like Compassion) could actually appear to be fully mobile living beings.

      I am wise in the ways of the Time Lord :D

      • willreseve says:

        I think this theory has some strong intuition about it, did you know River Song also has itself a very interesting Anagram,

        Servo Ring

        Servo – Servo motor or mechanism, Means of powered automatic control of larger system (servo assisted, -mechanism, -motor). ? Tardis

        Ring ? Amy’s ring

  2. Jenn says:

    If your theory doesn’t turn out to be at least partially true, I’m going to be disappointed. Actually, quite a few of us are now. Very intriguing thoughts!

  3. Verity says:

    I actually had a similar thought right after Silence in the Library aired but didn’t discuss it since most don’t know about the different TARDIS types and are not familiar with some of the Big Finish audio stories that show more of her sentience.

  4. kelvingreen says:

    I don’t understand the “grown from Amy’s ring” bit. Where are you getting that from? The new series has established that a TARDIS is grown from alien coral, not a bit of jewellery from Argos.

    • greywulf says:

      Lol! Maybe it turns into a TARGOS.

      After a few billion years in the nothingness of space at the end of time, I guess anything could happen. Also, remember that Amy’s Ring was placed in the centre console on the same spot where the new Sonic Screwdriver appeared. The TARDIS could easily have altered its structure and awakened it then.

      Just a thought, anyhow.

  5. kelvingreen says:

    I think it’s certainly possible that River could be the TARDIS, but I’m not sure the ring has anything to do with it.

    I’m sort of hoping that the TARDIS doesn’t get repaired for the next series, and they revive Bessie for a series of Earth-based adventures. ;)

  6. epocalypse says:

    Nice theory. My only concern is why would River Song as a Tardis need a Time Agent’s vortex manipulator to reach the doctor?

    • greywulf says:

      That’s easy.

      Every TARDIS needs a pilot.

      Without the pilot, she cannot time travel. Hence the need for the vortex manipulator.

      Which also explains The Lodger episode rather neatly too :D

  7. GJ says:

    Rivers is the Doctor’s daughter – half time lord. The whole of season 5 is a projection of David Tennant who dreams up Amy from a crack in the universe and dreams himself regenerated in a vastly inferior body.
    …wishful thinking…

  8. Enhas says:

    I don’t think River is *the* TARDIS but is more likely a part of it incarnated in human form. Either that or she’s Amy Pond somehow, but that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

    Those are the only realistic two possibilities, since Moffat has pretty much severed all ties to the RTD-era and has said that no RTD-companions will return (the montage at The End of Time was to say goodbye to all them, not just the Tenth Doctor). Also, The Rani is too obscure of a villain to return as someone that important.

    I’m kind of hoping that she turns out to be Donna Temple-Noble, who somehow regenerated after living a long life which fixed her mind to be able to hold most of the Doctor’s knowledge and memories (and also recovered her own that had been taken away). She would not be the DoctorDonna but something more in-line with Meta-crisis Ten. Now THAT would be a major mind screw and reveal (considering she’d also, you know, have the Doctor’s memory of her own future death and be unable to ultimately change it as it’s a fixed event), but it’s really not possible considering the ‘no RTD-companion’ mandate.

    So yes, she’s either the TARDIS or Amy.

    • Kenneth says:

      the new dr did do a guest show on the sarah adventurers … death of the dr and she was a RTD so that may not holed up about on rtd beening on the new dr who

  9. Feel says:

    Nice idea on the anagram.
    Does the doctor’s daughter count as an RTD companion?
    I’d love to see her again, I mean they just sent her into outer space and completely forgot about her.
    I can imagine her coming in out of nowhere.
    River song cant be the doctor’s daughter or else some incest would have to ocurr.
    Oh well, tonight I’ll know for sure

  10. Enhas says:

    No such luck there. Nothing earth-shattering was revealed about River and I didn’t really expect there to be.

    I seriously think that River is just River and nobody else, and that all the mystery surrounding her is really just to keep the viewers interested.

  11. Jake Lee says:

    I have heard something about the truth of River being told in the next season. Could she be the one to kill the Doctor and by that I mean kill-kill the Doctor by stopping both hearts which is the only way to stop a regen?

    That however leaves massive plot holes in the Doctor Who lore; it’s well known that the Villyard is a future Doctor and at some point they have to show this, sooner I hope as a true, dark Doctor Who would be something to see, maybe before Smith ends his run as DW?

    If River is a future Amy, then I feel sorry for Amy’s new husband. What is it; kill him off every season? Hey, it’s a new South Park Kenny.

    Also, that voice in the Tardis “Silence will Fall” one, well it’s believed that will at some point turn out to be Omega, who again, like the Villyard, is meant to be a future/last regen of the Doctor. Again River can’t kill the Doctor, without Omega there will be no Time Lords and also if you question about the Doctor being Omega, why do the Time Lords call the Doctor, the Doctor. A little to formal unless he is *that* important.

    The more important question is this, with the new Big Bang caused, will the Time Lords be back- seeing as the Doctor’s DNA was also resorted in the light?

  12. kelvingreen says:

    Who knows what Universe 2.0 is like? They’ve done a cosmic reset, but in such a way that things may be different to how they were before. It’s certainly possible that Gallifrey has been restored, or not, but they now have that option, which must be liberating for the writers.

  13. garnetto says:

    what? no, just no. if she is the tardis, why did she need a vortex minipulator. and it is so far-feched, i doubt it

  14. Badgeguy says:

    Try this one:

    River Ariell Song:

    Anagram for Real Girl Version (form of the TARDIS).

    Even without her middle name it is “RG Version”

    Bonus: Ariell means “Lion of God”

  15. GJ says:

    river song could be Rose and then david tennant doctor who clone could come back too… thru the crack….

    • Enhas says:

      I hope not, we’ve seen enough of Rose. I really liked her in Series 1 and 2 and think her story should have ended at Doomsday, as tragic as it was. Her Series 4 appearances (except in The End of Time, which was set pre-Ninth Doctor) left a lot to be desired.

      I still hate what happened to Donna, despite her semi-happy ending in The End of Time. The whole metacrisis thing could easily be used as a hook to bring her back somehow, since she *is* still half Time-Lord despite the memory block and she could possibly regenerate upon her eventual death. Sure, she’d have a different face but would eventually be BFFs and travel with the Doctor again, being again “his most faithful companion”.

      The Libary? A fixed point where she must die, else Donna and the other 4000+ people remain trapped in CAL and Davros destroys reality. What’s heartbreaking about this is that River would fully know what’s going to happen, having both Donna and the Tenth Doctor’s memories of it. She would have lived far longer (more than one lifetime) than she rightfully should have and was with the Doctor again, so she’d be content with that.

      Pretty wishful thinking, though. The odds are close to zero of that happening, since I think River is probably just River and nobody’s future form, and her first meeting with the Doctor will probably be as an enemy.

      River giving Amy the diary though? Whether that means anything or not, you can bet Moffat put it there just for everyone to speculate “Oh, what if she’s Amy somehow?”…

      • lauren says:

        Piont: to add to that (or second it or watevz) if she hadn’t sacraficed herself on the silence in the library, then donna wouldnt have surived thus it may bepossible that donna is rive-especially as i dont think river is completely human. ;)

  16. GJ says:

    River and donna were in the library together….
    And we still have to deal with the doctor’s daughter… (she kisses through jail bars like River), she calls the doc. sweety – she is a timelord…
    Or else maybe River is a throw-up from Galifrey…
    Hard to think she is the tardis because she only appeared last season… also it is a kind of unattractive prospect … ich…
    I still thinks she is the doc’s daughter… and in some coming episode he’ll meet the original daughter again time travelling (which will blow amy’s mind) and she will meet a sticky end and have to regenerate in the form of rivers…

  17. kelvingreen says:

    Enhas, the diary got returned at the end of the episode, so Amy didn’t keep it, and likely didn’t even read it, as it was blank while she had it.

    Am I the only person who thinks River is fine just being River?

  18. Enhas says:

    No, I’m just fine with River being River but I like to put out a crackpot theory here and there.

    Interesting about Jenny, since it was Moffat who wanted her to revive at the end, and considering he’s said that River’s story arc was long planned… I really hope she’s not Jenny though.

    More things about River:

    – She is someone extremely feared by the Daleks. Of all the New-Who companions, only Rose and Donna fit that. With ‘River is River’, It is more likely that what River is feared for hasn’t happened in the Doctor’s timeline yet, which will probably be next season.

    – She said that the next time they meet that “everything changes”. Who else spoke multiple times with those exact words in the past? Jack Harkness. Plus they’re both from (or at least lived in) the 51st century, used the same gun and (most likely) the same vortex manipulator. At the very least, they may be related somehow.

  19. kelvingreen says:

    Here’s one. The natural assumption is that the “good man” River murders is the Doctor, but what if it’s Captain Jack?

  20. GJ says:

    Jack is the face of Bo.

  21. LR says:

    ‘River Song’ is an anagram for Rover’s Gin.

    I think that K9 goes out drinking with his robotic dog buddies, and he overindulges. Several martinis (and a hooker) later, he starts feeling queasy. He races to the washroom, leans over the toilet and vomits up River Song.

  22. JB says:

    I think River is Romana!

  23. Veleda says:

    I think you’re right. I was watching an episode from the series with Martha in it, sorry I don’t remember which one..and the Tardis is called the ‘doctor’s bride’.

  24. kelvingreen says:

    Moffat has said that there are no such things as paradoxes and continuity errors in Doctor Who, because everything can be explained by the Doctor fixing it off-screen.

  25. brad white says:

    dosent the doctor get a type 40 TARDIS when he regenerates into matt smith though. (:

  26. brad white says:

    also what if river song ‘IS’ the doctor, she could just be a later regeneration of him, he doesnt always have to be a guy?

  27. JB says:

    Maybe the Doctor has to kill himself and he’s so pissed off about it that he regenerates as a girl? lol

  28. ViolaLucien says:

    very interesting thought, River being the Tardis or a part of it. But I have to think of her death. How can the Tardis or a part of it end up on a hard disk in the Library when the Doctor needs his Tardis?

  29. gabe says:

    Well, despite all of you crackpots out there, I think that The Christmas special is when the Doctor meets River… or at least a river that hasn’t met him yet. They’ll all go on some crazy adventure and at the end of the episode, she’ll hitch a ride in the TARDIS. They’ll fall in love in series six, and possibly get married in the 2011 Christmas special.

  30. JB says:

    Naaaa, Rivers not hot enough, it’s about Amy and the Dr., the meatball will get killed off or never have existed again. It has to be about the Dr and AMY or it gets boring.

  31. Jamie says:

    All them theories are wrong because what ever the future was has now changed because of the alternate reality created in the last episode

  32. Christy. says:


    Maybe River is Christina? Is anybody thinking that? :’D Could be very likely, at least in my opinion. And should be very interesting anyway. It would be nice to get Christina back to the series.

    And sorry if my English is pathetic. I am from Finland.

  33. Christy. says:

    And i am 13 years old.

    • greywulf says:

      Hello Christy! You are the first person to suggest Christina and I’m surprised she hasn’t been mentioned before. It’s very possible, definitely.

      Your English is excellent, by the way :)

    • Lea says:

      Mmm, but Christina sort of annoyed me. As awesome as she was, and your English is very good.. I think River’s going to become the companion in S7 or S8, simply because we eventually do need to see her in some sort of chronological order.
      And she probably isn’t Amy, because (for one thing – and DW does keep SOME things simple) her name sort of isn’t Amy, and the same object at different points in its own timestream asplode, or make a big bang. Which would have been obvious. And time travelers (and River’s relatively conscientious about being one as we see) would try and stay away from their past… Incarnations.
      I do like the whole Tardis theory, or at least an incarnation of her, especially the way that she can fly her (ditto on the timestream comments for that one if she was the actual Tardis). But how would she kill the Doctor? If the Valyard (kill me if my old Who knowledge is crud, it’s mainly been by osmosis through the internet) is anything like the Doctor, it won’t be defeated by River, as cunning as she is.
      Feel free to kill me now, both for idiocy and for bracket abuse.

  34. Rebecca says:

    If, IF, River is amy…
    Well 1. River is another word for Pond (Amy Pond)
    2. River Song = Lovers Ring (engagement/wedding ring)
    And finally 3. River and Amy get on really well as if they have known each other for like ever!
    Just some random speculation anyway!! ;) :P

  35. Rebecca says:

    And number 4. River and Amy wear the exact same watch (A thin strapped, gold one)
    I dont know, might just be a wardrobe problem

  36. Jason says:

    I like the TARDIs idea and the TARDIS has been acting a bit flakey lately. But my own theory is that River Song is the final Doctor. Each incarnation of the doctor has been a bit ego-centric and fairly reflects a huge admiration for themselves. Consider that in “past episodes, when the Doctors overlap a timeline of each other there is some competition and rivalry. Now a figure from the future with much admiration for the 10 and 11th Doctors appears and helps these younger versions. And I am convinced that River song’s hair is a bit ginger colored. But I would be sad as this thought would indicate an end soon to be for the Doctor.

  37. Robert says:

    Taken from above, I like the idea of her being the TARDIS exept for one problem, somewhere mentioned above it was said that the TARDIS 108 can comilianis itself into a moble figure but the doctor origionally stole the type 40. Perhaps he updated his enough to fix itself to that point when it regenerated, I just dont know. Another is that River is from the future so she knows whats going to happen so when she was in the TARDIS why was she unknown to the problems at hand?

  38. Lazlo says:

    River being the tardis would explain alot, but if this is correct, how will they explain the fact that river and the tardis have been in contact with each other and crossed timelines- the doctor has warned rose about this before in fathers day- but contrary to this advice she touched her younger self allowing further damage to be done. However, maybe the explosion on the 26/06/2010 was a result of their timelines crossing- for no reason the tardis took river to amy’s house- but maybe the reason was the TARDIS malfunctioned as river- the future TARDIS was alone in the past TARDIS.

    Also, proposing this is true, I shudder to think how the doctor and various companions travel in the TARDIS…

    Sorry, this proberbly is a badly puncutuated and spelled and an infantile remark-it was just a musing- i am 13 and just interested in the subject.

  39. Dana_A says:

    I just REALLY don’t see any way that River could be the Tardis. I don’t know why the Doctor would “tell” the Tardis his name. It is psychic and would already know. I don’t know why the Tardis (River) would talk about how the doctor would snap his fingers and go flying off in the tardis. I don’t know why the Tardis would get in itself and fly itself (series 5 finale). No way.

  40. brad white says:

    omg i soo think that the doctors name is geronimo because he sends that to river and therefore if that is his name he has told her (:

  41. brad white says:

    and also there is possibility that river is sarah jane smith haha dont forget about her (:

  42. Sara says:

    I like your theory and that was a theory of mine before reading it, too. It’s not that unlikely – I mean, if a companion could absorb the Time Vortex, anything can be. I also though they had shown us the Doctor’s daughter is alive for a reason since that episode ended.

    One thing that I couldn’t stand is her being the Doctor’s wife because that’s really too unoriginal for me.
    I *hope* she’s the TARDIS.

  43. mikey76 says:

    the idea of river being the tardis..far fetched but a great concept…why not,anything can happen in the universe of doctor who.rose touchin her younger self(no perviness intended) and damaging reality is the same as amy din the same when she came out of the pandorica,and also the doctor touchin himself in the same episode…this has happened many times over the years and only when rose done it that damage has happened…the whole idea that moffet was doin was,as the docotr put it that “time can be rewritten”,meaning that whatever happened before the cracks of time no longer happened,which also means that whatever happened to the doctor with the timelords,or omega,or the rani,no longer can apply…but then again,river happened b4 the cracks and is still remembered.i thought the idea of the doctor being brought back in a memory a bit too cheesey,but,if that happened,then everything else from the giant robot to the daleks in london can all be remembered again…theres always floors in doctor who and othe tv shows,but dont think that should ruin it for everyone bein inconsistant,after all,he is a time lord,a time traveller,and could restore all things at a later time…the villyard and omega could also have been rewritten with the reccent events,but the doctors memory of all he has done can also keep the old adventures still a part of time…confused…not likey…the doctors daughter to return,why not,could be river,but jenny died in that episode and came back to life and never regenerated,so mite be impossible to change into anyone else,but its an idea…i would love to see the last 3 or 4 doctors combine in a story,hasnt been done for years,and think it could bring something new and ingenious to the foe…new enemies are great,weeping angels,a great idea and one of my reccent faves…the slideen…not to keen.the silence…ant ideas who and what they can do that is so ferocious and deady to the doctor…onlt moffet knows…he may even steel some of our ideas…lol…great ideas indeed

  44. LR says:

    Don’t know if this is relevant, but at the beginning of The Sontaran Stratagem, The Doctor is teaching Donna how to ‘drive’ the TARDIS.

  45. I enjoyed your theory so much I shared it on our Facebook fan page High Council of Timelords. I like the way you think, sir.

  46. J. Smith says:

    I have a question that I would like to ask a very interesting question and I’d love an answer if one can be made. If River Song was put into a virtual world during Forest of the Dead, which we know she was, then how is it possible that in Time of the Angels she’s already met him, but he has yet to meet her? If the River Song in the fifth season isn’t the same one in the fourth, than how can she know that he hasn’t met her?

  47. kelvingreen says:

    J. Smith, “Forest of the Dead” is the Doctor’s first meeting with River, and her last meeting with him.

    “Time of Angels” is his second meeting with her, but we don’t know which time it is for her; we do know that it’s before “Forest of the Dead”, because she’s yet to become (or pose as) a professor, but it’s not the first time for her, either.

    They’re both jumping about in time, so their meetings are not going to match up.

    It’s the same River Song, you just have to puzzle it out a bit. ;)

  48. Veltrusen says:

    River Laura Song is the most likely full name if she is the TARDIS. Compassion’s original name was Laura Tobin, and since she became the daughter of the TARDIS, it is entirely probable that the TARDIS would desire to honour her daughter, or that River is actually Compassion herself, who would have all of the memories of the TARDIS piloted by the Doctor and [i]also[/i] have the capabilities to take a human form, ignoring the Chameleon Circuit size limit of 2 meters in height to allow for an entryway (most people could not fit themselves easily through a human shaped doorway the size of River Song, Matt Smith definitely couldn’t, though the first actor to play the Doctor might have been very capable of it).

    Then again, I might be overthinking this in the extreme.

  49. River Song might be the Master’s wife, but my personal favourite is that she is the Doctor’s sister – in the Doctor movie, wasn’t he supposed to be half human, on his mother’s side? I vaguely remember this fact being mentioned in an interview (with SM?) not so long ago. River Song is his twin sister, separated from him at birth (very Star Wars) and rather than them both being half human, she inherited the human side and the Doctor the Time Lord side.

  50. i think that she is the doctors daughter in the eposode the docters daughter she lives maby she regenorated and came back as river song, river song might mean nacher when the planit terror formed i became beauteful so she named her selth dr river song

  51. blair says:

    she is the doctors kid i have £30 on it

    • RoseE says:

      I dont think so……. when the Doctor said ‘River Song, I could bloody kiss you’ she replied ‘maybe when you’re older’
      That would be SO wrong if she was his kid.

  52. DD says:

    Omegas wife & the doctors future wife.

  53. Traci says:

    Can’t be the Doctor’s daughter – she flirts with him…it would be creepy…likewise she can;t be his sister, mother etc..

    Most likely she is the TARDIS and has manifested as the child Amelia Pond, drawing the Doctor to her. Rory will be the MAN (the Doctor is no man!) that River kills…

  54. Aluluei says:

    Yes! I had the same idea, and found your post when searching for discussions of the theory.

    I got the idea from Silence in the Library, when River spoke about her last encounter with the Doctor. She said that he had “turned up on my doorstep” and I wondered if that might be meant literally.

  55. RoseE says:

    I really like the idea of her being the TARDIS… but it just doesnt work… If she was, surely if she died, the actual physical TARDIS would…..I dont know…
    I havent found any theory that I really think could be right so far.
    Wife is too…..simple, I guess, no matter what River says and to be honest, wouldnt be that shocking. Daughter is just wrong on so many levels.
    The master’s wife just doesnt fit. I cant see it working at all.
    Romana, maybe? I like that idea too. after all, Romana never technically died. But wouldnt the Doctor know it was her, time lord senses and all?

  56. shaun says:

    yeah but his time lord senses have failed before and i wouldnt be suprised if the did again

  57. shaun says:

    i like the idea made months ago that river possibly killed captain jack. i know it was HINTED that he was the face of bo but to be honest im not entirely convinced as it would be pretty hard for a human to ‘evolve’ into a giant head, that can apparently give birth and has pods on the end of tentacle like hair. Im not sure about the River/TARDIS idea as it sounds kind of far fetched same as the ideas of River being someone else. i think River is River and is just another companion the doctor has found and potentially falls in love with.

  58. chaz says:

    she cannot be the TARDIS because why in the Pandorica Opens would she have needed a Time Vortex Manipulater if she could already Time travel?

  59. Catalunya says:

    mmm… I don’t think that river is the tardis because in the episode Silence in the library,
    The doctor asks:
    Where did you get form your sonic screwdriver
    And river answers:
    You gave it to me.

    So it hasn’t got any sense because if river is the TARDIS, she creates her own screwdriver

  60. pat says:

    How about

  61. Namwen says:

    A real ‘brainwave’! Thanks for brainstorming.
    God speed cl

  62. NoelC says:

    How about this,
    Amy and Rory travel with the doctor for a number of their timeline years, but are returned to earth only a short time after they had left.
    How would they explain a child (daughter) that was born whilst travelling with the doctor.
    Enter the Doctor as guardian.

  63. JKB says:

    River Song = Regenerated version of Donna Noble!….. ?

  64. Tardis Key says:

    wait… in silence in the library river told the doctor that he can open the atrdis with a click of his fingers , does that mean that if he click his fingers at river she opens up ? 0_0 . and when river breathes she makes a funny whirring noise OMG I JUST REALISED I BELEIVVE U SHE MIGHT BE THE TARDIS !. I noticed that every episode with river in it had the word angel hiddel somewhere in it (silence in the library/forest of the dead = miss ev-angel-ista and in the time of angels it is obvious). hmm i wonder if this is a clue . in the end of time when rassilon was sent back through the gate there were two women on either side of him , one of which looked at the doctor lovingly but sadly (in the script she was cast as the doctors mother) but these two women were in the weeping angel position , maybe river song is the woman beside rassilon ? , i dunno its just a guess there have been worse guesses

  65. Tardis Key says:

    atrdis = TARDIS sorry typo

  66. greywulf says:

    On a related note, Astrid is an anagram of TARDIS.

    Now there’s a thought.

  67. chabenisky says:

    i dont believe that river is the tardis it just doesnt fit. nor do i believe she is related to the doctor in anyway. i have a feeling that she has something to do with omega or some other old character possibly romana but thats doubtful.

  68. chabenisky says:

    here’s a thought okay so River is connected to jack in the sense that one they both live or have lived in the 51 cent. two they both have had vortex manipulators and three have the same gun? apparently if this is true what if the great man she killed or thought she killed was jack. Jack cannot die therefore cannot be the face of boe considering the face of boe died in the 3rd series. But jack can be the man that river thought she killed maybe he turns out to be some really great guy. Maybe she stole his stuff and jack is stuck somewhere in time probably 51st century.

  69. Bex says:

    I have read a lot of theories about River Song and one thing has struck me about all of them. None of them involve Rose. If River is the love of his life, she could be Rose. We don’t know what Rose and the other doctor are up to in the other universe. The other doctor could be teaching her stuff including his name.

  70. allwhitemeat says:

    First, we do not know that Capt Jack is human. All we know is he originated in the 51st century. Could be any species that looks human we have seen, or a new species all together. So, who knows what other future species of alien can or cant do. he is the Face of Boe, and Boe did not die, but transcended into space, maybe to become time and space itself, the arch of time created by Bad wolf Rose when she made him a fixed point in all timelines, as the doctor said in Utopia.

    Second, we have seen human form Tardis’ in past Dr Who material.

    Third, River kills what we assume was the last doctor, omega, when she killed the greatest man she ever knew.

    Fourth- she told the doctor in silence in the library, they would both be at the opening of the padorica (with matt smith) and the end of the universe (utopia). Since we already saw the end of the universe, and river was not there, she must be jack, martha, or the tardis.

    Finally, River is looking at Amy’s old room in the rebooted universe, and upon seeing the “raggedy doctor” remarks she should never let him out. How would River stop the doctor from “going out” if she wasnt there when he first met young amy as the raggedy Dr.

    I love this idea, and fully expect to see it fleshed out. Especially since it ties up the loose ends, adn brings us back something from the 70’s we havent seen since Compassion, A human form tardis

  71. nightfall says:

    I am not fully believing any theories about River Song, but, if she is the Tardis, it could make sense because if you go on tardis.wikia.com and search up Series 6, there’s a rumours page and one of the rumours states that the tardis will be cloned.
    Maybe the tardis ends up being cloned into human form, and welcome River Song.

  72. patrickcool says:

    I think she is the masters wife because she said she killed the best man she ever knew and the master is pretty cool. He made every one look like him!!!Not even the doctor could do that!!!!Well I don’t think he could do that. I don’t think she is the TARDIS because when dose the TARDIS kill some one!!

    • Roob Itself says:

      Ok ive been giving this a lot of thought. and i can only see/ hoping that what i think is the answere.

      Omega had a wife. however the wife of omega later remarried the other. presumably after omega’s final experiment with rassilon. During the experiment it is rumoured that it was sabotaged and rumoured it was rassilon. However what if it was an alternative reason.

      I believe it was omega’s wife trying to get rid of him to persue a life with the other. So omegas dead and his wife marries the other. but then the other has enough and throws himself into the looms and becomes the doctor in lungbarrow. All omegas wife knows is shes lost the other and is presumably arrested for murdering omega.

      The secrets of the doctors mysterical past is only reveiled to timelord and universe society when he emerges from his old house of lungbarrow in his 7th regeneration before he is asked to go to skaro to retrieve the masters remains and the stupid who movie begins.

      New doctor who begins and given time for the word of mouth of the doctors previous identitiy to circulate and omegas wife/ river song realises. breaks free and persues what she hopes to be her old lover.

      Now i dont believe river song is as great as she lets on. and theres gonna be something bad happen.

      Which leads me to feeling that the cracks everywhere and the silence will fall has to be omega. with the hand of omega constantly following and protecting the other and later the doctor, will omega be coming back to protect and help him from something awefull (river song), or to get revenge for betraying his trust with the other.

  73. Luke says:

    All points indicate it’s Amy, but this seems like the obvious and easy option as to who it is. Anyway, here are a few points –

    “You, me, handcuffs, must it always end this way?”
    The Doctor’s first meeting with adult Amy was when he was handcuffed by her to the radiator.

    “River I could kiss you!” “Maybe when you’re older”
    River says this in Flesh and Stone after saving Amy, literally a few hours later in the Doctor’s perspective Amy attempts to kiss him. Also, River knows what to do to save Amy because she remembers being saved by River.

    River says she killed the best man she has ever known, however it just seems way way too obvious for it being the Doctor, so if River is Amy, perhaps she (accidentally) killed Rory?

    How did River remember the Doctor before Amy did in The Big Bang? Because she remembered remembering. :P

    River’s strange answer to the Doctor’s question asking if she was married could be because she is/was married to Rory when she was Amy, or perhaps she is a widow now so asking a widow whether they are married or not can be an ambiguous question.

    River knows exactly how to get the Doctor when she needs him, and that is because she (as Amy) witnessed herself making intricate arrangements of obtaining the Doctor.

    That’s all I can think of, probably a few more points, but yeah it seems way too obvious to be Amy but there are lots of hints that indicate so.

  74. kelvingreen says:

    Here’s one: maybe River Song is really… River Song!


  75. Envy says:

    River=RIVER!!! Shocking

  76. (>O says:

    Every River starts Life As A Pond…..

  77. while most fans are unaware of this, during the third doctors airing, he explained that there would be another, who knew him almost as well as he knew himself, and that she/he would know his name. this was later interpreted in taiwanese, and the translation of this came out as River Song.

  78. Obviously she is professor Slughorn, the potions master, replenishing his appearance hourly with polyjuice potion, so he can hide from the death eaters.

  79. TimeyWimey says:

    I have thought about this theory myself.
    In Flesh and Stone the angel says “The Doctor and the TARDIS doesn’t know.” and I know it’s said a few more times by aliens (Prisoner Zero at least) but Moffat may be throwing the phrase in as a hint.
    Maybe? Maybe not? But she does know a lot about the TARDIS workings.

    Then again, in the library she says it’s the first time they’ve met…so unless she means pre-humanized, it couldn’t be the Doctor’s current TARDIS….or it could be Matt Smith’s new TARDIS…Is it new or just regenerated like the Doctor himself?

    Rambles ended.

  80. I think my house would look very nice with a new kitchen. What do you think?

  81. Here is my problem with your theory.
    How could River be the TARDIS and then travel in the TARDIS? seems to violate the rule of not traveling within your own timeline. Also, during the children in need special when ten and fives TARDISes kind of melted together, it was really bad and almost exploded. Having two TARDISes at different point in their personal timelines is bad.

    Also, how could River had existed before the Doctor was remembered by Amy in the Big Bang 2? Presumably, both the TARDIS and the Doctor were eliminated in that, so River would not have existed in the new universe if she were the TARDIS, because her adventures with the Doctor would have brought her to the point where the TARDIS would become River Song.

    • nightfall says:

      However, we have seen cases in Doctor Who where events in the present only exist because of events in the future.

      Like how the Doctor rescued himself from the Pandorica because he had already escaped and gave Rory his sonic to set him free.

      Maybe River wasn’t eliminated because by her giving Amy her Tardis journal, the Doctor and the Tardis came back, allowing River to exist to give Amy the Journal.

      It’s all very confusing timey wimey stuff.

  82. I’ve got theories upon theories about River Song…
    1) regenerated Donna
    2) the Rani
    4–I mean 3) Ace
    4) the TARDIS (who really loves the Doctor more than anyone)
    5) Susan’s grandmother
    et cetera…basically, all I know is if it just turns out she’s the doctor’s wife in the future, nothing exciting or interesting at all, I’ll be put out…

  83. Robert says:

    One concept I thought of was that River is a TARDIS, but not necessarily the doctors. In the original scripting of the ending of the episode “Journeys end” when the doctor left rose with the metacrysis doctor the original scripting was that the doctor gives the metacrysis doctor a TARDIS coral that he can grow into a TARDIS for himself and rose and although that got cut from the script the concept still applies. What if River is a new born TARDIS, that might explain a few things, though rise more questions. Just a theory but I want to consider that. If this is the case then perhaps the “possible newborn” TARDIS would be connected to its “mother” TARDIS and has some knowledge of the doctor through that.

  84. P J Kane says:

    She MUST be a regenerated Donna Noble!!! She just has to be! The whole clue lies in her own death/being saved to the Virtual World in Forest of the Dead. Who’s children is she putting to bed? Donna’s! It’s a nice full circle and Donna still is half timelord/human+she could aslo steer the TARDIS!

  85. CoolSlitheen says:

    What if River Song is actually a bounty hunter thats sent to kill the Doctor which is why she says she kils a great man.

    Im probaby wrong but its just a thought as the Doctor does have a lot of enemies.

  86. CoolSlitheen says:

    Or she could be the TARDIS from The Lodger episode

  87. CoolSlitheen says:

    River Song is The Doctor as there was rumours of a female doctor and he does seem to fancy himself a bit which would explain the flirting River does with the doctor and she has covered up her name like in the christmas special called the next doctor

  88. Jake Lee says:

    @CoolSlitheen – How can it be a future Doctor? The Doctor NEVER shoots anyone it’s against his/her/it’s very being. While River has and does use guns.

    I am really starting to HATE the new Doctor Who, they killed off botht he Time Lords and the Daleks, but have the find away to showhorn the latter into every bloody season. I hope the 2nd “Big Band” undoes the mess than Russell T Davis has made in the first place!

    Likey hod is this: River Song is River SONG! What’s wrong with her being, well her? The only reason why you people will find that a let down is that you have built up this idea that she is something bigger, greater than she needs to be. Unless she’s a Time Lord (can’t be, see what I just wrote about Russell T Davis) she will be around until the actress gets bored or the writing staff don’t have a use for her.

    The only reason she’s in the show right now is that she was a setup event in the David Tennant years and they HAVE TO use her in the show again or it will make no sense when you watch the older shows.

    I’m starting to to think that River Sony is Wesley Crusher, then they can at least shoehorn a guest star of Will Whiton to keep the Geek Crowd happy! (End Rant)

  89. CoolSlitheen says:

    Jake Lee – I was only speculating and people/ the doctor do change and if you remember when David Tennant was the Doctor he was about to shoot the Master and the other time lords but shot the machibne so he did use a gun even if it was to only shoot a machine and not a person.

  90. CoolSlitheen says:

    Plus its fun to speculate even if youre wrong!!!!

  91. Sara says:

    to Jake Lee: I disagree about R. T. D. messing with Doctor Who, however River was planned by Moffat. So it’s not like he HAS to use her somehow now, he planned to use her in season 5 reboot, he wanted it and presented her in season 4 on purpose.

    The question is: what’s the purpose? : )

  92. The Animator says:

    I think i can ruin the River Song is Amy Pond theory straight away.

    If they were the same person then they wouldn’t be able to touch each other since it would cause a time paradox, just like when Rose Tyler held her babyself. River and Amy have come into contact once or twice so it cant be River is Amy

    Were probably not going to figure the secret of River Song so were gonna have to wait until its revealed to us.

    The only things we can be sure of about her is:

    She is able to read and write ancient gallifraian. So she is either a gallifraian herself or hung around with the Doctor longer than anybody else

    She can fly the Tardis equal or better than The Doctor. Again she could be Gallifraian/TimeLady or more likely she learned from the Doctor.

    The Daleks fear her almost as much as The Doctor himself. She must be set for another encounter with them which cements her reputation with them. Only River and the Doctor have had the Daleks begging for mercy.

    Considering how long we have waited to see who river song is it must be more than just lover/wife.

  93. Luke says:

    @The Animator, SM is clearly not following those ‘time paradox’ rules anymore, adult Amy Pond can into contact with the young Amy Pond in the Big Bang.

  94. CoolSlitheen says:

    Could River Song be more than one person as could she be all of his companions roled into one somehow. Im not too sure but I thought of it while watching the next doctor christmas special with David Morrisseys companion called Rosetta who was like a mix off all the different companions.

    Sorry it probably a bit too weird. What does anyone else think ??????

  95. john says:

    I think she is Romana

  96. Random says:

    I have two theories:

    River=Amy Pond

    Either way, I’m convinced that Amy is connected very strongly to River in some form. I am also convinced that River is a Time Lord

  97. Roob Itself says:

    Sorry but im still in strong belief that river song is the doctor/ the others wife and omegas wife. she killed omega during his final experiement, got with the other, got arrested. the other then kills himself, becomes the doctor, and its taken all this time for river song and the doctor to reunite. possibly due to prison and timey wimey stuff.

    Omegas coming back. Ive being saying this since the beginning so i cant change my theory now. I have to make it work.

  98. CoolSlitheen says:

    Why is it that everywhere i go everyone seems to believe that this omega is returning. who on earth is omega anyway?

  99. NoelC says:

    I think River Song is Amy’s Daughter and the Doctor becomes her guardian.

  100. CoolSlitheen says:

    What about if River is a Auton no one seems to have thought of that and then kills the doctor or rory by accident.
    Or she is Lucy Saxon who was the masters wife

  101. CoolSlitheen says:

    my friend thought that river song is something to do with the crack in the wall and has to follow amy around maybe protecting the doctor too, then since rory gets closer river gets protective and kills him, river… pond abit curious.

    • FREAKY DEAKY says:

      I think that river song is amy in the future
      -shes ginger
      -she calls Rory stupid
      -and amy likes the doctor more than rory coz she came on to him the night before her wedding :)
      the reason she is in prison is because she killed rory so that she could marry the doctor it makes sense
      -AMY POND

  102. Enhas says:

    Wow, this topic is still getting replies after all this time!

    I think we’re all setting ourselves up for the same level of disappointment as the underwhelming reveal of the Final Fifth Cylon was on Battlestar Galactica.

    Assuming River is actually someone we’ve seen before in a new form (and there’s actually been almost no indication that this is true, except rabid speculation from fans), then she’ll either be:

    a) Amy Pond. The most obvious choice.
    b) Someone you’d never expect or even give a second thought to, and end up going “What?” about. This is the route Battlestar Galactica took.

    I’ve been thinking of something else entirely: What if there are actually two Rivers Song, and one of them is an imposter?

    Though unlikely, something like this could be true. All of her meetings with the Doctor are out of order, so it wouldn’t be known from one encounter to the next if she’s actually the *real* one.

    At some point, the real River meets the Doctor and gets very close to him, having secrets and knowledge given to her that nobody else has.

    Then she is killed. Yes, you’ve read that right, and I’m not talking about the Library (that is actually her impostor).

    Her impostor, wanting the same knowledge and secrets given to River, takes her identity. Given all the time-travel and backwards encounters, this is a very easy thing to do, and and possible blunders or inconsistencies could be explained away by saying “Spoilers!”, which was also something the real River did often to irritate the Doctor.

    River’s “everything changes” line points to this: That there are actually two of her, and one of them is not to be trusted (yet) and is in fact working against him. The River who spoke this is actually the impostor from further in her personal time-line (the real River long dead), having reformed and now genuinely caring for the Doctor.

    Father Octavian knows this secret of her true identity, and it’s what he was talking to her about.

    In all the episodes we’ve seen her in so far, River has been an impostor. By the end of Forest of the Dead, though, she has changed so much and has pretty much become who she was imitating, sacrificing herself to save everyone.

    The Doctor may meet the real River for the first time soon (with neither knowing it), which will end in her death, mirroring his first meeting with the other (fake) River. He’ll put two and two together, figuring out that there are actually two women named River Song running around, and at some point the real River will meet him for the first time.

    He’ll have encounters with both, not being able to trust either because one of them, until the fake one does something horrific and ends up imprisoned for it. After this point, he’ll only have encounters with the impostor, who redeemed herself and genuinely now loves the Doctor, until giving her the Sonic Screwdriver before she heads off to the Library.

    Something like this is unlikely and convoluted, but I was thinking about it and something like this just might be possible.

  103. Jaloysiusm says:

    Hmmm…”Silence will fall.” As it would at the end of a Song?

  104. DEANNALYN says:

    Wow, I never thought about that. But technically, in the “Big Bang” episode, the Tardis does kill the Doctor, but Amy brings him back.

  105. Nami87 says:

    1) River Song never “created” her own screwdriver in Silence in the Library. A future version of the Doctor gave it to her.
    2) How can the Doctor teach the TARDIS to fly itself if we already know the Doctor taught River how to fly it.
    GRANTED there are plenty of things that you have said that fit, but I highly doubt that that the TARDIS is River.
    3) In response to some of the comments that Amy is the likely choice, that has been dismissed by Steven Moffat on the DVD commentary for the episode “Time of Angels”

    My Theory:
    River Song is…. Donna Noble

    Through the Two-Way Biological Meta Crisis Donna would know what the Doctor’s name was because she has inherited parts of him.
    It is possible that she would re-generate BUT because she is half human she would have forgotten part of her past.
    Explains her vast intellect.
    Donna knows how to fly the TARDIS (i forget which episode but it was late in Series 4).
    She’s a redhead.

  106. Jake Lee says:

    I like the idea of Donna Noble, but didn’t Steven Moffat state that he didn’t want to use anyone from the R T D years? (Note: River Song was made BY Steven Moffat).

    I want the Big Bang to be that reset trigger to give us the Time Lords, etc without some bloated reason for them to be there. As for River Song being Amy Pond, that sir makes no sense. Amy is not a Time Lord, the actresses look nothing alike.

    I know, working it out using the power of crackpot ideas: River Song is….. Stalling…. The unidentified elderly female Time Lord from “The End Of Time”.

  107. Luke says:

    I don’t think it can be Donna because they had a conversation in the Library and River asked “You’re Donna Noble?” which I don’t think a future incarnation of herself would be doing :p

  108. Enhas says:

    New theory from me (contains a few spoilers from upcoming episodes, but nothing that BBC itself hasn’t released).

    Episode 4 of Series 6 is called The Doctor’s Wife, and the character of ‘Idris’ is going to be said wife. She’s said to be an old acquaintance with a new face.

    To make it simple: That line is somewhat backwards, and she actually has an *old* face. She’s a Time Lord, dies in that episode and regenerates into River Song. How the Doctor wasn’t able to tell that River was a Time Lord would need explaining though.

    Or Idris just dies. But somehow I doubt it considering this is said to be one of the most important episodes EVER.

    I still like the Donna theories too, but one that has been popping into my head lately is that River lost all of her memories and knowledge upon regeneration (Donna’s song has ended but a new one has begun), as a major side effect of not being a full Time Lord. This would explain how she doesn’t know Donna or about her upcoming death in Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead. This doesn’t seem likely though.

    Oh, and River is also not Amy Pond, the Doctor’s mother, or a future version of the Doctor. These were all shot down by Moffat himself.

  109. Steve Woters says:

    How about River Song being Lady wotsit doda, from the special. that disappears in the London Bus. She was intelligent, capable of looking after herself and had the same type of personality as River. How do we know that the adapted bus has caused her to fall that a time warp.

    There is also the Doctors daughter. She rejeuvinated after the Doctor had left her, more than regenerate and she had the same eneergy signature as seen in the modern regeneration sequences.

    As to the elderly female time lord who approaches Donna’s grandad andd bows her head I cant see her as River but the Doctors Mother.

    The flash gordon ‘rip’ with the emporers ring, i thought it was the senior pison warder who conducts the renewal ceremony took the ring. If Lucy Saxon had taken the ring, I cant see that it wasnt a major part of the ceremony, and she would have destoyed not kept it.

  110. Bluebox says:

    I think River Song is Amy Pond.

    It’s rumoured that the Doctor will be cloned or copied in Series 6.

    River Song says that she killed a good man. She also says in “The Pandorica Opens” that the Doctor taught her to fly the TARDIS, but in “The Time of Angels” she told the 10th Doctor that he was too busy to teach her to fly it. So maybe the Doctor’s clone or copy taught her to fly the TARDIS.

    In the Season 6 trailer we are led to believe that Amy Pond kills someone. Maybe she thinks that she is killing the evil Dr Who clone only to find out that she has killed the real Doctor instead (“the good man” that River Song killed). It may explain the look of astonishment/dismay on the “other” Doctor’s face in the trailer when Amy pulls the trigger.

    Alternatively, River Song and Amy Pond could be different people and River just takes the rap for killing the Doctor to spare Amy’s imprisonment.

  111. steve woters says:

    In a Christmas Carol, towards the end’, you are led to believe the Doctor shoots of and gets married to Marilyn Monroe. 2 quotes Marilyn, get yer coat and well it wasnt a real Chapel. So in a diverse Dr Who manner, is River Song Marilyn Monroe. Is she Kyliee Minogoue atoms that have reformed Is the death of a goodman a regen, dr dies, regens, new person, replacement not recognised by police and if they slot Corten in as new dr I will never watch again

  112. Enhas says:

    Don’t expect anything about River to be revealed in the first two episodes. Moffat is milking the mystery surrounding her for all it’s worth. Most likely, there’ll be a few scraps thrown to us in the finale, with a huge cliffhanger that’ll only raise even more questions until this fall.

    I think there’s two possibilities:

    1. Just who River *is* still hasn’t been decided yet. I’d love it if they’d tie her somehow to Sarah Jane Smith, whose actress recently died of cancer. :(

    How they’d go about doing this, I don’t know… but it would be absolutely awesome. At the least, I hope that Sarah Jane has an episode devoted to her (concerning her death) in the second half of the season this fall.

    2. Moffat has had everything planned about both River and his current story arcs from as far back as the Series 1 episodes “The Empty Child” and “The Doctor Dances”, and has thrown hints in every other episode he’s written up to Series 5, but we did didn’t know where to look or what to look for. And as for Series 5, it’s rumored that the main threat from the upcoming season has appeared in *every* single episode.

    River somehow being Madame du Pompadour might actually be quite valid, for all we know. I’d be floored if that ended up being true, for sure.

  113. steve woters says:

    What an interesting episode, so who is who, done what with who and how.
    Amyy is pregnant [so far]
    Amy is River Songs MOTHER
    River Song is the astronaut
    Astronaut kills the doctor,
    who is the greatest man to have lived [or what ever]

    • Matt says:

      that’s interesting-something River says to Rory…
      “When I met the doctor a long long time ago, he knew all about me, think about that, an impressionable young girl and suddenly this man just drops out of the sky and he’s clever and mad and wonderful and knows every last thing about her. Imagine what that does to a girl-the trouble is it’s all back to front, my past is his future we’re travelling in opposite directions, every time we meet in know him more, he knows me less. I live for the days when I see him, but I know that every time I do, he’s one step further away. The day’s coming when I’ll look into that man’s eyes-my doctor- and he won’t have the faintest idea who I am and I think that it’s going to kill me….”…The astronaut was a young girl…Amy shoots at her in the last scene of this episode….hmmmm…..

  114. I think she’s the thief from the bus in the desert.

  115. DJ_Roller says:

    well… it all makes sence then… BUT who is river’s father if amy is the mother? if river is indeed half time-lore, then that would mean the doctor would have gotten her pregnant.. however, the doctor hasnt been around amy much between season 5 and 6… only traveling on his own. So, the question remains.. who is rivers father? amd another thing to consider… yes… donna noble is half time lord in a sence… BUT in the alternate dimension… the OTHER doctor (david tennant) who is also half time lord half human was left with rose tyler.. and we all know that rose herself has absorbed the time vortext into herself

    • Enhas says:

      I just thought of something… if River is Amy’s daughter then it’s just not possible that Rory is the father. Why? Because she wouldn’t have existed during the time that Rory was erased from existence / an Auton (The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang), and yet she still did.

      I still think The Silence did something to Amy (see below) and that River is at least partially Time Lord.

  116. DJ_Roller says:

    also… another tie in to the ‘other’ dimension, is the fact… “scilence will fall” for a long time the voce that had spoken that phrase has haunted me becuase i had heard it before in other dr who episodes…. its the voice of the “Creator” of the cybermen that david tennant and billie piper encountered in the alternate universe. also in the recent series premire of season 6, the creatures AND the ship have been before mentioned AND seen in season 5 episode 11, “the lodger”

    • number1234 says:

      i think the doctor said that in “the lodger” the ship was an attempt to build a tardis, but there was no compatible person that could fly the ship. now, excuse me if i’m wrong, but the only enemies/monsters that would use the term compatible is the cybermen and the clockwork creatures. and as DJ Roller stated as well in this comment is that voice of the cyberman creator has said “silence will fall” before. and i honestly don’t think that unless the theories that river is actually madame de pompadour, the whole series is tied in with a plan from the cybermen. and maybe the silence are working for the cybermen

  117. Enhas says:

    River Song being the offspring of Rose Tyler & Meta-Crisis Ten… please no, no no. It would also mean that she is related to him, and given her closeness to the Doctor… ugh.

    All I can figure now is:

    – Amy’s baby is River Song.
    – The young girl in the space suit is River Song, but her older self doesn’t remember it for some reason.
    – Rory is *NOT* the father, nor is the Doctor (ick). The Silence impregnated her somehow with Time Lord DNA (possibly even the Master’s!) to create River for their own ultimate plan. Amy, of course, doesn’t remember it happening.

    Of course, since it’s being led this way it’s probably also completely wrong. We’ll see.

  118. Jenica says:

    River song cannot be the TARDIS for one particular reason. The TARDIS cannot function without the use of a crystal power source from within the TARDIS, charged by the Doctor’s life force. If the TARDIS kills the Doctor, then it dies with it.

  119. Enhas says:

    Okay, I can’t help myself and I keep reading up on a bunch of supposed spoilers (as far as Episode 13!)… it seems pretty obvious that River is Amy’s daughter. Moffat is about as subtle as RTD was with BAD WOLF VOTE SAXON THE BEES ARE MISSING, and I doubt he’s planned so far ahead as to write (and film!) bogus scenes and endings to episodes just to throw would-be spoiler hounds off.

    Moffat is probably laughing at all of us. Even without spoilers it seems so stupidly obvious now. I’m just hoping that what I’ve read is wrong.

    I feel dirty.

  120. Nathan says:

    After watching the lastest episode, i honestly think that River Song is inside the space suit which shoots the doctor, she seems to awfully protect the secret and also ried to shoot herself. Maybe just a load of rubbish but it would seem fitting for the story as a character is being axed and if river song killed herself it would mean that the doctor survives and lets face it, shes in prison for something, i do like the theory of her being the TARDIS though, very clever :)

  121. DoccyFan says:

    First of all… I’m deeply apolagetic about the sheer size of this um… “comment”?!


    I personally would LOVE for river to end up being that little girl from the most recent episode “the day of the moon”
    I think we can all agree that River is a time-lord or at least part time-lord and as the girl started to regenerate at the end of the episode…. Maybe into a young river??? Also River talks about her first meeting with the doctor :

    “River: When I first met the Doctor—a long long time ago. He knew all about me. Think about that. Impressionable young girl and suddenly this man just drops out of the sky. He’s clever and mad and wonderful. And knows every last thing about her. Imagine what that does to a girl.
    Rory: I don’t really have to.
    River: Trouble is, it’s all back to front. My past is his future. We’re travelling in opposite directions. Every time we meet I know him more, he knows me less. I live for the days when I see him. But I know that every time I do he’ll be one step further away. The day’s coming when I’ll look into that man’s eyes—my Doctor—and he won’t have the faintest idea who I am. And I think it’s going to kill me.”
    Firstly she says it was a “long long time ago” atm the little girl is in 1969 America, in the doctors terms thats a long long time ago…
    Secondly she clearly states that she was a ‘young girl’ and he knew all about her, the fact that the young girl getting mixed in the current storyline, with the doctor and amy, im not saying amy is rivers mum, yet im open to opinions, she definatley something to do with amy (I at least think so) maybe nothing maternal or maybe-so! one theory I’ve cooked up is that she is amy’s child but as for the father, it isn’t the doctor or rory… she started getting the pains in her abdomen after her first encounter with the silence (I’m guessing this is the begginging of pregnancy) the silence needed the little girl for something, perhaps they want to get rid of the doctor (or just do something generally bad to him, all the evil aliens want to do something along those lines!!) so they’re taking the young river to mess up his time-line (her past, his future)… Also when amy first spoke to the silence it told her to tell the doctor something, then later she comes out with something along the lines of “I need to tell the doctor something, I dont remember” “Doctor I need to tell you something, its important… I’m pregnant!!” Its a plausible theory and it isn’t totally obvious but isn’t so far fetched that’s almost impossible! This maybe a red-herring but its pretty much the only theory which can make sence that i’ve not read..

    Just my thought’s and hopes :)

  122. DoccyFan says:

    Sorry forgot to pitch this idea along with my huge comment….

    Maybe the silence wanted to create a part-time lord or normal time-lord to use for their own destructive plans, i mean what evil alien doesn’t want a time-lord on demand?!
    So they may be using amy as a host… Oooo another thing, when river first met the silence she also got the same pains as amy, so perhaps the silence were just trying to find an acceptable host to carry a child, and it had to be someone close to the doctor… but if river is the child but older it wont work on her, and will cause problems.. because surely she cant be pregnant with herself :L
    and to anyone who asks “yea, but if that was true wouldn’t river remember any of this as the older her?” Well not nessesarily, because of the silences capability to erase themselves from anyones memory the moment they stop looking at them, they could erase young rivers memory of them when they realise that their plan isn’t going to plan so they decide to abort and erase themselves… And then young river meets the doctor.. who knows everything about her and already cares for her deeply..

    What does everyone think then… Hmmm?? :)

  123. Marty says:

    I think River is amies daughter, the doctor meets later in life, marries and has a child and that child in turn is Amy Pond, Rory is Rivers father and some how River kills Rory, everyone knows that every girl think their dad is the greatest man in history, so we have a time loop/paradox.
    Doctor hooks up with river and has baby, which is amy, Amy has daughter which is now half time Lord cause her father is a time Lord.
    am I making sense??? probably not

    • Emma says:

      That to me sounds like you’re saying that Doctor is Amy’s father and River’s grandfather, and that the Doctor and River get together and have a Baby-Amy. Is that what you’re saying? Because that would mean that River is Amy’s mother and Amy is River’s mother??? I think that’s the greater paradox… Also, wouldn’t that make the doctor both of their Father’s? And River’s grandfather?

  124. Angie says:

    I just finished watching ‘Day of the Moon’ leaving me with more questions then answers. When it comes down to who is River Song; I really have no idea but I was skimming over the past comments and been re-watching old shows and came up with a few thoughts.

    One: I don’t think River Song is The child of the Doctor and Amy Pond. The truth is we don’t even know if Amy is pregnant, at the end of ‘Day of the Moon’ the screen kept switching from positive to negative. Maybe there’s something in the future being tampered with.

    Two: I think the little girl (Astro-girl is the nickname my friends have made) might be the Doctor’s daughter, as in his real daughter. Maybe Astro-girl is the child of River and The Doctor.

    Three (Don’t ask me why I’m numbering these, no idea :P): River Song can’t be Rose Tyler. I thought just the other day that River might be the child of The human Doctor and Rose. Not sure that the writer would do that though, he’s a good writer but I’m kind of mad at him for breaking some basic rules. Back to the topic; I would like to think that River is David and Rose’s daughter but I’m not sold on the idea because it doesn’t quite fit.

    Four: I think there is no way River is Astro-girl. If she was she wouldn’t be so surprised when Matt Smith was shot. She would have known as soon as she saw the space suit. It doesn’t add up.

    Five: I Think by the end of the season it will be just The Doctor and River. If not soon, River said they will meet and he will know everything about her and she will not know him. That I think would be the start of the new season, maybe even a new doctor? River and The Doctor going on the travels together they’ve been talking about.

    Thoughts anyone? I like feedback! Tell me I’m wrong or something haha or as The Doctor has said:

    “I’m making perfect sense, you’re just not keeping up.”

  125. number1234 says:

    everyone just needs to stop putting theories out on the internet and wait and see. if it was an answer that people would easily be able to guess it wouldn’t be much of an exciting T.V. show would it. i’ve read a lot of theories and none of them seem to fit. sure some bits do, but others bits just CAN’T. just wait

  126. DJ_Roller says:

    so… the most recent episode… part two of the impossible astronaut…. i agree with the possibility that the scilence impregnated amy… however with the scilence giving thier own execution order… i say that’s very unlikely.. and the voice.. Scilence will fall…. still haunts me…. also.. at the end of the recen episode, we see a little girl (may be the same little girl from the space suit) saying that she is dying, to a bum on the street, and then eminates time lord particles as if she’s about to re-generate… if indeed this kid is a time lord…. she regenerated as a kid into what? an adult? or does she stay a kid? and as for river being related to the doctor.. how? his future is her past… they keep meeting at the wrong times… and she even said that the more they meet.. the farther away from him she feels…. and even if she was part time lord, the doctor would be able to tell because of the connection time lords have with each other. all spoilers aside (supposed spoilers) i think we should look in the past for the answers… also.. if his future is her past… then some details to their relationship lies in the silent library…. where he meets her for the first time, but she has known him for quite a long time apparently…. i do agree, however, that amy is pregnant with the doctors daughter… and it would make scense because they were in the past looking for the kid and they found an orphanage and amy had seen pictures of her with her baby…. if indeed the doctor is the father.. it makes perfect scense to have her sent to the past to raise the kid while river kills the doctor.. which we all know eventually happens anyway…. any thoughts/ideas about any of this?

    • I feel that the child is not the doctor’s daughter. i feel she is either amy and rory’s child who was changed by travelling in the time vortex while amy was pregnant. maybe the child is even jennys daughter, brought to the doctor for safety?

  127. Heidi Helene says:

    Is it possible that River is actually Amy’s grandmother and Amy’s mother is the girl in the spacesuit, but doesn’t remember it? Of course that wouldn’t explain why she’d forget that she could die and change. We don’t know anything really about Rory’s family. Wonder if River could be Rory’s grandmother. I think the whole Amy being the mom thing is misleading us on purpose. I don’t think it would make sense that the girl in the spacesuit is Amy’s daughter, The girl IS in 1969 and we have seen a picture on her nightstand that could be Amy’s twin grandmother or great grandmother. I think it’s entirely possible that Amy could have a timelord like child–only because she and Rory have traaveled so much in the Tardis and Rory is now like 2000 years old. My mind just spins with all the possibilities! I love it!(with one exception about the last episode)

  128. woters says:

    More AmyRiverDoctor – The Universse is not enough.
    This must be close to the First Contact or Doctor and River Song.In River Songs death in the library she told Doctor[dt] that her Doctor[ms] could open the doors to the Tarddis with a click of his fingers, which Doctor[ms] does quite spontaneously.
    At beach party when Doctor is killed, River purposively blocked Amy & Rory from interfering, perhaps this is a fixed point in history, is the contents of the suit River?
    Now timewarp to classic series, at one point Sylvester McCoy was supposed to have been training his companion Ace into’timelord’but series was killed off. Or a more modern timewarp with Doctor[ce]and Rose – The empty child. The Doctor plays with the nanogene repair robots, prior to the reincarnation of Nancy & Son and eventually the repair to the rest of the hospital. Was some timelord dna, stilll in thenanogene’s basecodes which was imprinted into the’repairs.
    These dna genes have lain dormant until their activation by the Tardis. Dr Constantine and lady with new leg were never triggered as no tardis contact. How about Amy beingg a descendant of Nancy, grand or great grandmother. Rory and her conceived whilst travellling in the tardis and so allowed the activation of the dormant ‘superior dna’.
    Now it gets spooky. Yes pregnancy isnt confirmed yet. During the period od time that Amy was abducted by the silents, they no doubt did scans and found Amy to be pregnant. They could have removed the embryo from Amy – or – was she having twins, 1 for her and 1 for the silents.
    The doctor said that we went to the moon in 1969 as the Silents required a spacesuit. River said it was totally advanced with about 20 different alien attributes and was basically living. Was this suit needed as a super incubator for Amy’s embryo.
    The photographs on the nightstand were black and white, whereas the photograph of Amy and baby was in colour. This could be the twin embryo of the one taken from Amy. Several shots showed the mobile hanging from the ceiling, there were also a lot of mobile’s hanging between the masts of the ‘pirate ship [eps3].
    havent looked into mobiles yet.
    Timewarp, Curse of Fenric, Doctory[sMc] and Ace. Ace hated her Mother. She falls in love with young baby at camp. For safety she sends mother and baby to london to her Grandmother and transpires that baby is her Mother, we are shown Ace admiring the photograph of the baby
    Last bit, why doesnt Amy know the Daleks and Cybermen and she seems to have ‘lapses’ , regular abduction activity.
    And who is the ‘Borg Riversong Song’ we seen twice.
    Thanks, sorry about length.

  129. woters says:

    Knew there was something else. These Silents, that have been here for ever and never seen, they are not exactly hiding from us. Although I think they are targetting Amy. See above re abduction/pregnancy. No one has questioned the fact that in the toilet sceen, when American lady blows up -“Her name was Joy and you are Amelia”. No name badges, less paranoid and security conscious time, how did the Silent know their names. If he /she/it was the resident Silent for the Whitehouse, then yes he may have learned ‘Joy’s’ name. But how did he know Amy’s name, not even her time period, and he adressed her as Amelia not Amy.

  130. Leap says:

    In my best guess….River Song is the daughter of Amy Pond (rivers begin with a pond) and the Tardis. Yes, you read that right. River then, in the space suit, kills the doctor and where then does the spacesuited bod go? Why….back into a pond….

  131. Maybe Amy and the Doctor get a little funky and the Ood is watching through their globe thingy and gets too excited breaking their globe and drenching the couple in Ood music at the exact time …… the baby is made. And now we have River Song. :D
    Some of us think about this too much!

  132. Bee says:

    I think after the kiss at the end of the second episode there is no way river can be directly related to the doctor. I always thought that was a bad theory anyway, there was WAY to much flirting for that to be okay.

    I’d like to link people to this imdb page, although it is a bit spoilery, as is the rest of this post.

    This is the girl who plays the little girl in the actress, note she is down as playing a Young Lucy Saxon.

    This is the original person who played Lucy Saxon back in the last few series. Down to play her again in “A good man goes to war”

    Bad move on IMDBs part, I’m pretty sure the writers would have a fit if they knew it was up there, unless it’s there on purpose to trick us, but seems unlikely.

    So, little kid is Lucy Saxon, could Lucy Saxon be a young river song? She did after all kill the best man she ever knew, the Master.

    • kelvingreen says:

      IMDB is not a hugely reliable source, particularly for information on upcoming films and programmes. Data is submitted by users, and is not subject to any fact-checking, so take anything you see there with a grain of salt.

    • Ch4rms says:

      Lol, they removed them. I couldn’t find what you were talking about. so maybe the writers did notice and have it taken down XD

      • Bee says:

        Haha so they have. Maybe kelvingreen was right and it was just some randomer who put that up. Or maybe your right and the writers paniced. I don’t really want her to be Lucy Saxon :(

  133. OK so, reading a few theories, i have come up with an idea.

    I know lots of people have said this, but i think River Song is Amy Ponds daughter. When Amy was in the Bathroom, the Silent said “there are some things the doctor must know, and somethings he must never know.” now the thing they wanted him to know, was she was pregnant. (i dont know why) but she wasnt actually pregnant before that, what if the silent got some of the doctors DNA, cause if they did he obviously wouldnt remember. and then somehow used that to make her pregnant. Thus the lil girl is half time lord, but because we know that a human-time lord cannot be, (Donna would have died) they had to make the suit to keep the human-time lord alive (River Song). This means that the Doctor is still sort of related to River, but neither of them would know (their memory would have been erased) and its only through a bit of time lord DNA, so its not actually his ‘sperm’ so they arnt related. Also the whole point of the silent going through all this trouble is to kill the doctor, as the lil girl in the space suit was not controlling it at the time and shot the doctor. This explains why there was a silent there at the time. With this lil girl killing the doctor, she went into a rage and broke out of the suit. when she broke out she started to die, then she regenerated. becoming a different little girl (but still a little girl) and later on the doctor meets her and he doesn’t recognize the lil girl because she has regenerated. explaining why she said he came out of the sky, imagine what effect the would have on a little girl (this also explains why he cant sense another time lord, because she is only half time lord). And River is in jail because she killed the doctor.

    There is also the other theory i like, where River song is Donna, but regenerated (into a little girl for some reason >..< hope someone replies

  134. Deb Green says:

    i’m with the Tardis idea. Some part of the Tardis impregnates Amy, who gives birth to River. The Tardis said to call her ‘Sexy’, and there was the bit about the kiss, and explains why The Doctor trusts her so much. And when she died the ‘Tardis’ said ‘The true water is in the River’ – or something like that.

  135. woters says:

    I didnt realise that the temp tardis was a blue peter prize comp. Been a few over the years of bp/dr who {I will not submit to dw} hate it.
    Tardis/River Song…dont think so, althoough fragmented sentances by Idris [wot that stand for?] were bordering on River speak, but then there was message to Rory about forest river water, havent copied it down. Nice to see old Doctors and flight rooms. Back a sentance and physical similarities to River / Idris.
    Timewarp, series 1 New Earth, Face of Boa/Cats episode – first. Face of Boa was pregnant. Jump forward to Captain Jack and Dalek episode with jackie tyler and [my]Sarah Jane. Jack said he was pregnant once,but never again. Is Captain Jack River Song’s Mother. Or he might have said it in Torchwood episode.
    So the end of season cliffhanger going to be the cmn. But I may have it wrong, thought they were all sent back through the rift and the rift closed. But then there was the Christmas special / New Doctor, enjoyed that. Is that how River has a gun like Captain Jacks.. Lots of fishfinger quotes about. River, Pond, fish[fingers] , River Mother is an old Trout!!!!

  136. woters says:

    Sorry terrible memory. Continuity blooper,first episode. Matt Smith flying through air hanging on Tardis Door frame. In one seen he is holding on to a raised frame on floor and next clip it is smooth floor no raised lip.

  137. Joe Usher says:

    If Tennant looked younger than River’s doctor as she said, then this definitely isn’t her last series, because Matt Smith looks younger than tennat

    • it wasnt that he looker physically younger, but that his eyes and mindset looked younger because he had not yet experienced all the events she knows that he would in his personal future.

  138. James Smith says:

    Oh boy, a bunch of new bees. How much fun can we have.

  139. steve woters says:

    So do we take it we are going to have clone doctor for a while, and that he is the Doctor killed by the spaceman, then that releases ‘our’ doctor from being the dead doctor, from two hundred years in the future. Rory is falling for another lump of plastic, is he still an auton?, someone check his bum for a barcode!
    Rory is still in the background, it could be he is the main part of this series and we are speculating on the amy/river/baby.
    Borg styled eye patch lady, seen her twice so far. in the christmas special, Kathryn Jenkins, we see Amy and Rory in failing spaceship. The pilot had a similar eye patch.
    Praps we are going to have advanced cmn, like they did with the daleks, who did absolutely nothing.
    we have heard about ‘the flesh’ way before, cant recall at the moment.
    oh well, Watch is having doctor who day this saturday, by looks peter cushing as doctor and the tv movie.
    Can anyone remember flat topped daleks, no domed head, going back long time there. might have been my chad valley slide projector…wish still had that.

  140. Erisa says:

    I found this board and just had to give my two cents. 

    I wrote this down as I was falling asleep about 30 days ago-

    “What if Amy and Rory  is the child’s mom. The child has been influenced by the tardis during Amy’s pregnancy so she’s a human time lord. What if the child is River and River kills the doctor from the space suit. Why wouldn’t the child grow up to be in love with her mom’s (best friend).”

     Ill go on to say now that I believe that River is Amy, Rory and the TARDIS’s daughter. I know, it’s weird, but they just devoted a whole episode to the fact that the TARDIS can be personified in the “Doctor’s Wife”. So it’s possible. Plus the TARDIS said Rory was the cute one. Also, Amy said that she was afraid of having a child because of the possibility of a baby having a “time head.” So to me, that little girl is very likely Amy’s daughter, and her “time head” is having the ability to regenerate. Besides, does anyone remember the old Peter Davidson episodes where the DOCTOR needed the TARDIS in order to regenerate successfully? A time Lord needs his/her TARDIS. Its a sembiotic relationship. 

    The only problem I have with this theory, is if River is the child, why the heck would she not remember any of it. All I can think of is, “spoilers”. 

    And why I’m thinking of it, in last nights episode as The Doctor’s ganger, Smith, was about to destroy the rougue flesh (Lucy was it?) and himself in the process, he said, and I don’t quote exactly, “there might be a way back from this.” Maybe that implies that it was actually the Doctor’s ganger that gets killed by the space suit. 

    Overall, I’m really excited by next week’s episode. Regardless of the outcome, I don’t think I’ll be disappointed at all. 

  141. Tim says:

    She is the tardis! do your DR research guys. The tardis has taken human form once before. In fact she even told the doctor that she “let” him steal her becuase she wanted to explore. And Also she told the dor that she always took him where he needed to go not where he wanted to. then after a short time her essence returned to the tardis. Look it up people . YOu really should go watch all the old episodes . But yes River is the tardis.

  142. verblin says:

    prolly no1 of you could possibly imagine this outcome :S

  143. Big Duh says:

    River is Amy and Rory’s daughter. River does kill the best man she’s ever known: her father, Rory. Melody Pond, River’s real name, is changed to River Song because “the Gamma forest people do not have a word for “pond”, Bucket used the closest approximation: “River”, along with “Song” as an approximation for “melody”.

    Also, anyone that thinks River is the TARDIS, or that she is the Doctor’s daughter, is a moron.

  144. whitemeat says:

    Your “intimate knowledge” of the story is only b/c you saw the episode before any of the US posters on the board. Calling everyone, including the OP, a moron is like a kid who peeked at the answers calling legitmate guesses stupid. Its childish and shows you r just good at insults, not using your imagination.

    Who is to say what timey whimey stuff might occur? I’m currently watching for evidence of the silence in the last two seasons. They are everywhere. And anytime I see an irregular flashing light, I wonder is it them off screen? They are everywhere, and they abducted and needed flesh amy and baby melody

  145. oh, its Tuesday. Strange, what happened to Saturday. No Doctor Who, I will not succomb to DW, that stands for ‘dim wits’ of which we are not. Did quite well in my guesses for who’s Who are you, mind you liked the bit about it being Captains Jacks baby though. Torchwood blooper, sorry know it Doctor Who, Tosh and Tommy the first world war soldier, they are on the peir and she went running into his arms…dropping her handbag on the floor, in next shot when she is in his arms, she has her handbag on her shoulder, cant miss it such a poor edit. Score so far, Doctor Who 1, Torchwood 1. This firm morpeth jetsan, think its to do with the Masterand anyother Timelord you can make from the remaining letters. Perhaps its the doctors name, no wonder he keeps it secret. Come on Whovarians, noone has translated the names on the Doctors cot yet. Again another thing about mobiles, as previously listed after eps 2 and the Pirates. This thing with borg lady eye patch, did Steve Moffatt have anything to do with the Pandorica. That was all about the Doctor being the enemy and biggest threat. Ooooh, what about the gay Silurian Jack Slayer and maid then. Anyone get the Thunderbirds joke, not word perfect, park her up Parker, I wont be needing it again tonight, Yes my lady [ Lady P and Parker about the Rolls Royce].And where did the tall thin fat short gay married anglican marines come from.
    Just think little River will be in nappies soon, then a spacesuit and then walking the streets regenerating everywhere. Sorry I am rambling. When River dies in the Library and is stored on the hardrive, there was enough of her energy stored in her sonic to allow the transfer. Just before clone Doctor went all pilsbury dough boy, Flesh Doctor threw him a sonic, is he going to have enough info stored on the sonic for flesh Doctor to recreate him, ready for him to be killed by the Spacewo/man, allthough there was evidence of regeneration starting up wasnt there. What is going to happen to the Doctor, it’s 12 and out with regenerating, look what happened to the Master.
    About time that BBC started to show the Classic Series of Doctor Who again.

  146. James Smith says:

    Check out the. Who is River Song posts on Greywulf. Ideas flow like water there. It’s the other post area

  147. ryan says:

    River song is amy’s daughter

  148. James Smith says:

    Amy and Rory will die or be sent in hiding to protect River from the Doctor enemy’s. There more Gangers to come and Rory will be found to be plastic.

  149. James Smith says:

    I think Moffat is using a lot of history in his stories. Like he has the  hero who fights and fails. Only to grow and learn from his mistakes.

  150. James Smith says:

    Most guys given the choice between Transformers and Sex in the City would choose what? 

    Moffat will travel down that dark road. So did Davies somewhat. Except he didn’t kill any companions? Will Steven Moffat dare to go down that road of killing Rory again? Unless he dead already and plastic Rory has been in his place for a while.

  151. steve woters says:

    Lets play a new game. I think we can say who is River Song !!. I havent got the timeline worked out in my head yet about Rivers conception date, i wasnt there, But it seems Amy was swopped before America and at the start of the first gangers episode as they enter Caerphilly castle, the doctor and Amy indicate that they had been there before without Rory. But I transgress, Who is Eye Patch Lady? I will open the bidding with…

    Eye Patch Lady is..DAVROS.

    He was left behind on the mothership when Doctor Donna saved the universe. He was known for his gene manipulation. [Baby River is human dna + timelord]. He crafted the last of the classic daleks from his own dna. Has he regenerated himself as a totally new entity, who would look for a female Davros, s/he could work without drawing too much attention to his true being as a female/walking. Look at EP Lady when she tells the doctor that she has fooled him with the same trick for a second time. She has black lips and mouth and when she calls him ‘Doctor'[Dok-tor], she doesnt half look like Davros when she speaks Doctor, with the same venomous inflection as Davros. Davros wasnt a Russell Grant..Davies.. character invention, he is a fixed point in the Doctor Who history, and so isnt ‘a new enemy’.
    Do watch the first Doctor / Amy episode again, there are so many quotes and hints in that episode for the rest of the series.

    But what is it with all these mobiles. The orphanage, the pirate ship, somewhere else and the Doctors Cot.

  152. James Smith says:

    Mobiles are kind of childhood thing. Moffat was showing that every culture has mobiles. 
    We have clues concerning the crack in the wall. Size  of the house and why Prisoner Zero stayed in Amy house. He could of gone anywhere. Could it be, he was sent there to watch her? 
    I don’t think you’ll find the person behind it all to be a past villain. If it were, I vote for Omega over the rest.

  153. James Smith says:

    Plot info for Lets kill Hitler , has leaked after a showing. 

     It seems that our Time Lord chases Melody Pond thru history. Ending up in 1930’s Germany. Facing the Universe greatest war criminal and Hitler too.
    The teacher (know as the Doctor) must show his adversaries that time travel has great responsibilities. But the teacher learns a lesson himself in the cruelest warfare of them all. 

    First, nice to have Who stuff to work with again. Yahoo! 
    Second, we know the Doctor was going after her, no surprise there.
    Third, we knew he was going to Germany in 1930’s, again no surprise.
    Fourth, who is the greatest war criminal? Not Hitler, since it is universe , not earth they were talked about.
    Fifth, of course,  the Doctor is going to  Point out where the evil villain is wrong.
    Sixth, what does he learn? Could it be that  there is no tooth sharper than thankless child?

    Following Moffat writing history, he writes about issues in his life at the moment. What’s up on that front? He seems happy married and has kids. Kids can be a pain. I know, I was there once as a child and have one of my own. Kids can be real thankless little critters.

    Well gang, time for those little grey cells to be put to work.

  154. James Smith says:

    Anti – Spoiler alert|

    Most interesting idea came across my desk just now. That the greatest War Criminal is the Doctor himself. Look at pass shows. He has used others to join him in his battles. 

    A little while ago, I would of gone with Omega. But now I wonder, the use of Omega is fine and logical answer. But is that Moffat’s point, really? Davies had the villains in the past accuse the Doctor of being the problem.  

    But let’s go on Moffat reign alone. We now know that first Moffat season is tied into the present. In the The Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang all his enemies say he caused  the crack. What if he did? Directly or indirectly? 

    Now I say 50 -50 chance it’s a villain from the past. 50-50 chance it’s the Doctor. I been told in past shows there a evil version of a future Doctor.
    Is this his price he pays for being a GOD? Because. The truth is,he has been God. I posted Moffat saying  the Doctor  was super liberal. “if you didn’t do what he says,he blow up your planet” he said that at a Comic Con, afterwards to a panel of reporters. Said as  a joke, what if , it was a joke, but also in truth a spoiler?

    I base this on not Dr Who’s  past, past be damned. I again say more has been hinted by Steven Moffat. His desire to show the Doctor as he pictures  it.  
    Saving the universe so many times is boring. Moffat is not a man who wants to bore or be bored.

    So Lex,  we have to see if you have a better cup of tea leafs than me. 8-)

  155. James Smith says:


    Producers again are leaving Doctor Who. What is Moffat doing with them.Davies kept his people. 

    Also see this, http://www.amoeba.com/live-shows/performances/hollywood/2011-july-26/doctor-who-dvd-signing-/artist.html

    Matt and Karen are signing copies of Dr Who, limited signings.

  156. James Smith says:

    Every bodies coming to America these days Royal family to DR Who. How cool can that be.

  157. James Smith says:

    Every bodies coming to America these days Royal family to DR Who. How cool can that be.

  158. James Smith says:

    Question has been posed that how does River get out of prison easily. 

    Simple , the Doctors request. Same reason she couldn’t travel with him when he asked her. He requested her to stay in the prison or worked a deal to stay there.

  159. Testing 123 says:

    Life is what you do while waiting to die.

  160. James Smith says:

    They say, that life is what you do while waiting to die.

  161. woters says:

    Rambling observation/questions
    When the Doctor goes back for Amy in the start he comments on there being a new garden shed in the garden, which Amy shrugs off, could this be another tardis configured in disguise.

    In the Whitehouse toilet {Bog [restroom]} when the Silent killed [atypical 1960’s Visioned American Lady], he referred to her as Joy, which at first I thought he meant ‘had joy from blowing her up’, not her name and he called Amy Emelia. How did he know her name, they had only just arrived at Whitehouse….had they already previously abducted and ‘gangered her. Also in the Whitehouse, when Amy observes the Silent from the oval room, stood directly behind her looking at the doorway is one of the Presidents guards men, how come he didn’t react to the Silent being there, good guard if he stood there with eye closed.

    Read somewhere about Rory changing into Omega. If Rory/Omega is the person in the spacesuit who kills ‘ganger’ Doctor, and River goes on later to kill the spaceman, which would be Rory, a girls ‘Best man ever known’, is generally a Father figure.

    Lost as to my timeline, but now the blueman is dead in AGMGTW, is the timeline out of order, as River purchases the vortex manipulator from him – with wrist attachment.

    I also think that the Master is going to reappear from Morpeth Jetsam Industries, or Davros as being the gene manipulator who manipulated Baby Melody’s DNA structure.

  162. James Smith says:

    Used your posting to make mine clearer , I hope. 8-)

    Rambling observation/questions
    When the Doctor goes back for Amy in the start he comments on there being a new garden shed in the garden, which Amy shrugs off, could this be another tardis configured in disguise.

    (That could be possible. Since a Tardis can disguise it self or is it a Silent Tardis ?) js

    In the Whitehouse toilet {Bog [restroom]} when the Silent killed [atypical 1960’s Visioned American Lady], he referred to her as Joy, which at first I thought he meant ‘had joy from blowing her up’, not her name and he called Amy Emelia. How did he know her name, they had only just arrived at Whitehouse….had they already previously abducted and ‘gangered her. Also in the Whitehouse, when Amy observes the Silent from the oval room, stood directly behind her looking at the doorway is one of the Presidents guards men, how come he didn’t react to the Silent being there, good guard if he stood there with eye closed.

    (That is a unknown, fact need to check on that.)ms

    Read somewhere about Rory changing into Omega. If Rory/Omega is the person in the spacesuit who kills ‘ganger’ Doctor, and River goes on later to kill the spaceman, which would be Rory, a girls ‘Best man ever known’, is generally a Father figure.

    (Half right, Rory killed (by river maybe at the Lake?)  Don’t think he’s Omega.)js

    Lost as to my timeline, but now the blueman is dead in AGMGTW, is the timeline out of order, as River purchases the vortex manipulator from him – with wrist attachment.

    (Blue man will be back at end of season. He will be a teacher to someone. Time is being used by Moffat as plot device.) js

    I also think that the Master is going to reappear from Morpeth Jetsam Industries, or Davros as being the gene manipulator who manipulated Baby Melody’s DNA structure.

    (Don’t think so,  Moffat doesn’t like to use too many prior ideas and people. Unless he uses Scooby Doo plots)js

  1. June 27, 2010

    […] Jake’s comment that Rory is Doctor Who’s version of Kenny from South Park (and he so is – how many deaths can one character have in a single series?! He’s like Captain Jack’s skinnier brother) got me thinking. And laughing. Ok. Mostly laughing. But thinking too. […]

  2. July 1, 2010

    […] I got a whole new theory, right here! 5 people like this post. Unlike […]

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