How to Survive as a 1st level Character

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20 Responses

  1. EltonJ says:

    Good advice for those who play World of Warcraft.
    .-= EltonJ´s last blog ..Aquatic Humans =-.

  2. drow says:

    i take umbrage, sir, at your blatantly stereotypical portrayal of my kind as incapable of teamwork. i’ll have you know that we are more than capable of such, and you surface dwellers shall rue the day that we destroy your cities and plunder your hoarded pittance.

    in the meantime, i agree with everything you’ve written. my group played part two-thirds of a one-shot side adventure last night, and the effectiveness of the one-shot PCs working together was monumental, and i think eye-opening. i think this will carry back into our regular cast of PCs.

    between the barbarian and two rogues, the monsters spent most of the melee either prone, dazed, gushing blood (jagged weapons ftw), or some combination of those. i love my paladin, and am looking forward to playing a warlord, but i think rogue has become my favorite 4e class.

  3. Katallos says:

    The mini-stat blocks is a great idea to help foster in character discussion and make teamwork flow more readily when it comes to using skills. I will begin working on making sheets for my E6 3.5 game this evening, and will likely make some for the Pathfinder game I am playing in as well.

    If everyone at the table has access to a computer it may be possible to use Obsidian Portal for this as well.

  4. DarkTouch says:

    Its been a little while since the last time I took a look at Commander’s Strike but for some reason I thought it was a Melee power.. meaning that in order to use it you had to be ‘attacking’ the same creature. I assumed it was basically a glorified Aid other which isn’t bad but doesn’t allow for the standing out of the way tactic. There could be errata however.
    .-= DarkTouch´s last blog ..Lady Bee =-.

  5. greywulf says:

    @Elton Fourth Edition D&D is NOT World of Warcraft. It’s a whole different beast. If you want to make it WoW, that’s your choice, but it’s capable of much more than that.

    @drow Your race’s love of distrust and backstabbing is legendary :D It’s great to see that your group gave teamwork a chance. It really is the difference between success and failure.

    @Katallos Great idea, and good call on suggesting Obsidian Portal.

    @Dark Touch It uses a Melee weapon as its implement, but the target is just “one creature”, and an ally makes a basic attack against that creaure. After much discussion, our group ruled that the creature had to be in Melee range of the attacking creature (of course), not the necessarily Warlord.

  6. anarkeith says:

    I was under the impression that Commander’s Strike required both the Warlord and the ally to be in melee range of the target. Nevertheless, when we’re talking about my warlord’s d8+3 damage versus the whuppin’ that one of our strikers can lay down, the choice is simple: Commander’s Strike = Fire when ready, my friend!
    .-= anarkeith´s last blog ..Getting Started in D&D 4e: Entry 2: Power Cards and the Magic: The Gathering effect =-.

  7. drow says:

    it’s not so much that we gave it a chance, but that the particular characters involved had the proper tools. in contrast, our regular cast PCs have been built in bits and pieces over time, upon a messy foundation. it’ll take some retraining and swapping out one or two PCs, but i think we have a clearer vision of what we should be aiming for to make the DMs life miserable. :)

  8. greywulf says:

    @anarkeith I guess if you interpret Commander’s Strike as being that the Warlord needs to be in melee range too you could always arm him with a Halberd of Spiked Chain so he’s got Reach :D

    Actually, that’s not such a bad idea….. I feel a Spiked Chain wielding Warlord build coming on. Yum!

  9. anarkeith says:

    Robin, that’s exactly what folks have done with Warlords to exploit Commander’s Strike. You can stand in the second rank and whack at targets, shielded by your tanks, and help them bring the pain when the opportunity arises.

    I’ve always just used it as combat flavor with my character. It brings a happy smile to another player’s face when you tell them they can make another attack this turn.
    .-= anarkeith´s last blog ..Getting Started in D&D 4e: Entry 2: Power Cards and the Magic: The Gathering effect =-.

  10. Awesome post once again, thanks for this.
    .-= Mike(aka kaeosdad)´s last blog ..Fantastical Languages =-.

  11. jdh417 says:

    Great post, as are most of your posts, but I have to tell you, this is exactly why Old-Schoolers don’t think 4e is real D&D. All of this tactical talk reads like commentary on a chess match. I have heard it said, not as a criticism, that 4e players talk about their combos and combat strategy more than the adventure itself. Old-Schoolers talk about lucky die rolls and clever play, but normally in context of the adventure, not by itself.

  12. Elda King says:

    @jdh417: Old Schoolers often say that “4E is too soft”, and they have to survive by cleverness and such. Well, here players are being taught to be clever in order to survive, but using more complex (and complete, and coherent, etc) rules.

    Nice post, thought not as useful as the previous ones – my party never had teamwork problems, from the start. And both me (when I DM) and my usual DM (when I don’t) make sure we need to.
    I would not use the mini-sheets, thought. We usually know our characters well enougth, and sometimes can even guess their skills. Also, it’s good for dialog both in and out of character: it’s kind of cool when a character yells at another “Do you think you could do this?”.

  13. by_the_sword says:

    It’s ironic that the “old-schooler’s” complain how the 4th edition has travelled so far from D&D’s roots and yet D&D started as a wargame.

  14. drow says:

    argh… bravura warlord, or tactical? tactical is indisputably awesome, but bravura has a couple of charge powers which mesh well with warforged juggernaut. decisions, decisions…

  15. Philo Pharynx says:

    I love parties with multiple leaders. Each of them has such great ways to build synergy. Another great thing about Commander’s Strike is that you can use it to get in another attack when a character has a bonus that will expire before his next action.

    And of course the encounter power Hammer and Anvil is the best way to enhance a flank.

    Artificers aren’t bad either. If you give them a reach weapon they can often give three or four players a bonus when using their at will Magic Weapon.

  16. EltonJ says:

    “Fourth Edition D&D is NOT World of Warcraft. It’s a whole different beast. If you want to make it WoW, that’s your choice, but it’s capable of much more than that.”

    That’s not what I meant. I mean there’s little teamwork in World of Warcraft’s raiding (which is a sport). When you wrote the article, the only thing I could point to was your first paragraph, which had the most relevance to me. Why you connected World of Warcraft to the whole of D&D 4th Ed and started defending D&D 4th Ed as it not being Warcraft means that I put too little information into my response.

    (Yes, I accept responsibility for your reaction response, so I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that wasn’t my intent. *grins* )
    .-= EltonJ´s last blog ..What do you think about this quote? =-.

  17. EltonJ says:

    @ By_The_Sword said:”It’s ironic that the “old-schooler’s” complain how the 4th edition has travelled so far from D&D’s roots and yet D&D started as a wargame.”

    Actually, I got into Swords and Wizardry as my RPG of choice now because I wasn’t happy with how I participated on the official boards and helped create 4e. Somehow, I thought to myself, I helped create something I don’t find any empathy with.

    I wanted some freedom with RPGs, and so Swords and Wizardry offers that to me. It’s free, it’s easy, and I can do anything I want with it without spending hours creating a monster.

    That doesn’t mean that I don’t want to try 4e, but it also means that by gaming with Swords and Wizardry, I recognized that the play is the thing and not the rules to play by.
    .-= EltonJ´s last blog ..What do you think about this quote? =-.

  18. greywulf says:

    @drow I think that’s a common problem where players have built their characters as individuals rather than as a team. That’s something I expect to change now that 4e has firmly taken root.

    @Mike Glad you like it my friend :D

    @jdh417 It’s a shame that many old schoolers think this way (and I agree, they do) as they’re missing out on a game which hearkens back to the very roots of D&D itself. The tactical elements in 4e add a whole new layer to the game that’s reminiscent of Chainmail and classical wargaming. And that’s without taking a single thing away from the whole D&D experience either – the tactical element is an addition to an already great game, and one I’ve come to like.

    @Elda It sound like your group has teamwork nailed, so I guess this post is preaching to the already converted :D

    @by_the_sword Absolutely! 4e D&D is much more old school in it’s roots than Third Edition ever was. 3e looked at AD&D and how to improve it. 4e looked further back for inspiration.

    @drow I’m a fan of the Tactical Warlord – I just wish the class had more CHA-based Powers (especially At-wills) so I could build a good high Charisma, low Strength battle leader.

    @Philo Good tactics! Duly noted. I really need to look over the Artificer sometime. That’s a class which has passed me by so far.

    @Elton No offense taken :D The comparison between WoW and 4e has just been done to death now, I think. Thanks for the clarification! And I agree entirely – “the play is the thing”, indeed.

    Thanks, all!

  19. EltonJ says:

    Throw out all warlord options and make your own.
    .-= EltonJ´s last blog ..What do you think about this quote? =-.

  20. Chuck says:

    I feel compelled to pull out my old post on the range of Commander’s Strike.

    I’ll also point out, it’s far more tactically interesting to have to worry about the position of both the warlord and the beater, and whether the warlord has reach (he should, it rules).

    Also, the question you have to ask yourself if you’re letting the warlord use CS outside melee range is “What IS the range?” 5 squares? 10? 20? Line of sight? There’s no answer in the power description because the real answer is “however far his melee weapon can reach” (see post linked above for much over-analysis of this point :) )
    .-= Chuck´s last blog ..Playtesting the Scorpire Vampion =-.

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